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Forum: OWL Lists: OTA:
[ORT-L] crush distal tibia

 

 


kolix at wp
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Nov 6, 2008, 1:34 AM

Post #1 of 14 (5132 views)
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[ORT-L] crush distal tibia Can't Post

Dear
Could You give us an advice ?
48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal tibia managed
nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to us. There,s no
signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large contusion, Tscherne
3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ? Internal fixation (
plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option...
Best regards
Marek Kolasniewski
Orthopedic Trauma Unit
Military Hospital
Poznan
Poland
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lion173_1 at 163
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Nov 6, 2008, 4:19 AM

Post #2 of 14 (5131 views)
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Re:[ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

I think using a plate is a good choice!


在2008-11-06,"Marek Kolasniewski" <kolix@wp.pl> 写道:

Dear
Could You give us an advice ?
48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal tibia managed
nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to us. There,s no
signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large contusion, Tscherne
3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ? Internal fixation (
plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option...
Best regards
Marek Kolasniewski
Orthopedic Trauma Unit
Military Hospital
Poznan
Poland



nswolfso at usc
New User

Nov 6, 2008, 4:52 AM

Post #3 of 14 (5131 views)
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Re: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Marek:

Her what I would do:

1. make sure there is no compartment syndrome. If yes: fasciotomy. If no:

I would make sure full length x rays of tibia and fibula is done, including ankle x rays, and even CT scan of the distal tibia, to assess possibility of intraarticulat extension of the tibial fracture. I also would take x rays of the foot.

2. Soft tissue is my first priority.

A. I stage my treatment.

1. Temporary ex fix ( traveling frame): one pin or wire into calcaneus and one pin ( or wire) into proximal tibia. Try to stay away from the IM canal. You can safely put proximal pin or wire into mataphyseal bone. ( if Morell lesion ( not likely) decompress with I@D )
2. After the swelling is down and soft tissue condition declared itself ( hopefully no major skin problems), it may take between few days up to 2 weeks or sometimes more) my next step would be to address the fractures. CT scan will give you more info on possible intraarticular extension of the tibial fracture and if there is a large fragment you may reduce and stabilise it prior to the IM nail insertion.

I would use IM nail with at least 2 distal locking screws, and ORIF of the ankle: reduce and plate lateral malleolus, medial malleolus, stress syndesmosis under X ray ( C arm, fluoro) and, if unstable address it as well. If CT scan shows postesrolateral fragment fractured and displaced you may have to address this based on stability of your ankle/syndesmosis. You can work around your nail.

It sounds you have experience with Ilizarov. It would not be my choice. make sure you address the ankle injury.

Good luck

Nik

Nikolaj Wolfson, MD, FRCSC
Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery
Keck School of Medicine
University of Southern California
nswolfso@usc.edu
(323) 226-7346 phone
http://www.usc.edu/medicine/orthopaedic_surgery

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----- Original Message -----
From: Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl>
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008 1:36 am
Subject: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia
To: ORT-L@www2.aaos.org

> Dear
> Could You give us an advice ?
> 48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal tibia managed
> nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to us.
> There,s no
> signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large contusion,
> Tscherne3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ?
> Internal fixation (
> plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option...
> Best regards
> Marek Kolasniewski
> Orthopedic Trauma Unit
> Military Hospital
> Poznan
> Poland
>
---
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ccollinge at msn
New User

Nov 6, 2008, 6:45 AM

Post #4 of 14 (5131 views)
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RE: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

 
First, cases like this are difficult and perhaps inappropriate to comment on definitively from afar. I agree with previous comment that the soft tissues are the key component to success, and we have no ability to accurately assess that component of the injury.

Soft tissue questions that may help make decisions:

1. Your description of the soft tissue injury is unclear. Is this an open or closed injury?.both Gustilo and Tscherne soft tissue grading systems are mentioned.
2. Where is the open wound (if it exists)? Can the wound be used to aid in reduction to allow for an easy early nailing? If so, why stage procedures, just nail it. This is a metadiaphyseal fracture with significant soft tissue trauma and even if MIPO plated it will likely take a longtime to heal with a high% requirement for bone graft.
3. How are the lateral soft tissues? Plating the fibula (or PerQ nailing) may provide assistance for a) tibial reduction and b) construct stability to prevent valgus collapse
4. How are the soft tissues at the medial malleolus? Open vs. perQ screw fixation are options.
5. Finally, and likely most importantly..are the soft tissues evolving/ progressively dying off? If so, make plans for early soft tissue coverage before it gets infected.

Cory Collinge, MDcell 817-253-9392 > From: kolix@wp.pl> To: ORT-L@www2.aaos.org> Subject: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:34:48 +0100> > Dear> Could You give us an advice ? > 48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal tibia managed> nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to us. There,s no> signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large contusion, Tscherne> 3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ? Internal fixation (> plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option... > Best regards> Marek Kolasniewski> Orthopedic Trauma Unit> Military Hospital> Poznan> Poland
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w.zuidema at vumc
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Nov 6, 2008, 10:40 AM

Post #5 of 14 (5128 views)
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RE: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear collegae,

With this bad soft tissue I would opt for a staged approach. First uni lateral ex fix for stabilization untill soft tissue injury calms down. Than you still have the option if the soft tissues improve to perform a intra -medullairy osteosynthesis of the tibia and a thick k-wire in de distal fibula. Or in case of continuing bad soft tissue , transform your ex fix into a hybrid ex fix..


succes

W.P.Zuidema, trauma-surgeon

dept. of Trauma-surgery

VU Medical Center

De Boelelaan 1117

1081 HV Amsterdam

The Netherlands <mailto:w.zuidema@vumc.nl>

________________________________

Van: ORT-L-owner@www2.aaos.org namens Marek Kolasniewski
Verzonden: do 6-11-2008 10:34
Aan: ORT-L@www2.aaos.org
Onderwerp: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia



Dear
Could You give us an advice ?
48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal tibia managed
nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to us. There,s no
signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large contusion, Tscherne
3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ? Internal fixation (
plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option...
Best regards
Marek Kolasniewski
Orthopedic Trauma Unit
Military Hospital
Poznan
Poland




assadmd at yahoo
New User

Nov 6, 2008, 11:37 AM

Post #6 of 14 (5128 views)
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Re: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

hi there. interesting case, very challenging
for a background, in our setting we comfortably nail the 3a tibias with a nail. now he came 2 day late but as u said no signs of infection. my only concern would be the soft tissue. if u are happy with them, nail it.
if not id slap on an exfix and hold this out to lenght and once the tissues are settled , id drop a nail in and address the ankle too.. plate the fibula and fix that malleolus.
alternatively..depending on your tissues, if it allows u to, id ORIF the ankle and get the fibula out to lenght and then mua that tibia (seems it will lock into each other based on the # configuration) and manage him in a pop with a window for wound care. all really depends on how the tissue injury is and what part is affected.

assad



--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl> wrote:

> From: Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl>
> Subject: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia
> To: ORT-L@www2.aaos.org
> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 1:34 AM
> Dear
> Could You give us an advice ?
> 48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal
> tibia managed
> nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to
> us. There,s no
> signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large
> contusion, Tscherne
> 3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ?
> Internal fixation (
> plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option...
> Best regards
> Marek Kolasniewski
> Orthopedic Trauma Unit
> Military Hospital
> Poznan
> Poland



---
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trtoaljr at comcast
New User

Nov 6, 2008, 12:40 PM

Post #7 of 14 (5128 views)
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Re: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

A photograph of the wound following the latest debridement, and a statement about the patient's medical history would help you get some specific, rather than generic advice.

Tom Toal
Portland, Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marek Kolasniewski" <kolix@wp.pl>
To: ORT-L@www2.aaos.org
Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 1:34:48 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia

Dear
Could You give us an advice ?
48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal tibia managed
nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to us. There,s no
signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large contusion, Tscherne
3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ? Internal fixation (
plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option...
Best regards
Marek Kolasniewski
Orthopedic Trauma Unit
Military Hospital
Poznan
Poland


kolix at wp
New User

Nov 6, 2008, 12:41 PM

Post #8 of 14 (5128 views)
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RE: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

This injuries is open Gustilo III A with wound on medial side of tibia, but
the mechanism of the injury made a large contusion on anterolateraL side of
leg, especially over the fibula - its looks - Tscherne 3. I'm afraid to make
any Internal fixation- this is 3 day without tx - so possibility of deep
infection is common...
tomorrow I will try debride this, realign and stabilize temporary by
external fixator ( spanning ). I Wonder if stabilise fibula and syndesmosis
in 1st OR ?
Then I hope few OR for I&D and stabilize medial malleolus and fibula and
syndesmosis. If will not sign of infection I intend converse into nail( I
think within 2-3 weeks ). Long treatment by external fixation ( Ilizarov
frame ) is no an option for this patients because of his personality...

Marek Kolasniewski
Orthopedic and Trauma Unit
Military Hospital
Poznan
Poland



---
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emalpgi at gmail
New User

Nov 7, 2008, 12:37 AM

Post #9 of 14 (5115 views)
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Re: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

dear
the best option is hybrid external fixation,, that too under c arm ,,
it will give u space for dressing of the wound and act as a definetive
treatment too,,
all the best,,


On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl> wrote:
> This injuries is open Gustilo III A with wound on medial side of tibia, but
> the mechanism of the injury made a large contusion on anterolateraL side of
> leg, especially over the fibula - its looks - Tscherne 3. I'm afraid to make
> any Internal fixation- this is 3 day without tx - so possibility of deep
> infection is common...
> tomorrow I will try debride this, realign and stabilize temporary by
> external fixator ( spanning ). I Wonder if stabilise fibula and syndesmosis
> in 1st OR ?
> Then I hope few OR for I&D and stabilize medial malleolus and fibula and
> syndesmosis. If will not sign of infection I intend converse into nail( I
> think within 2-3 weeks ). Long treatment by external fixation ( Ilizarov
> frame ) is no an option for this patients because of his personality...
>
> Marek Kolasniewski
> Orthopedic and Trauma Unit
> Military Hospital
> Poznan
> Poland
>
>
>
> ---
> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>
>



--
May Almighty bless us all

Dr Emal Wardak
MBBS "SMS, Jaipur"
MS "Ortho" {Bronze medalist} PGI Chd, India, Dip. SICOT
Member of NZIOA,IAA "India"
AADO "Hong Kong", SICOT
Orthopaedic Surgeon
Kabul
0093-707034241
www.mussawardak-hospital.com
---
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odesky2000 at yahoo
New User

Nov 8, 2008, 5:35 AM

Post #10 of 14 (5106 views)
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Re: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear colleague! Do you use in yours practice Ilizarov apparatus? If yes, his technique is a method of choice for this case.
I agree with the doctor Wolfson that soft tissue more important than fracture at the first stage of management of patient. Therefore good debridement of the wound with removal of all devitalized tissues is extremely important.
How can you use Ilizarov techniques for soft tissues? You can essentially decrees the sizes of the wound by dublication of bone fragments having created shortening and \or angular deformity.With the subsequent restoration of length and an axis of a segment by Ilizarov apparatus.
This technique is well described by doctor Lerner in his book
A. Lerner D. Reis M. Soudry
Severe Injuries to the Limbs
Staged Treatment
If you need more recommendations about this technique, you may address to me.
All the best.
Odessky Jacob M.D.
Orthopedic Division
Assaf Harofeah Medical Center
Zerifin, Israel

--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl> wrote:

From: Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl>
Subject: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia
To: ORT-L@www2.aaos.org
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 11:34 AM

Dear
Could You give us an advice ?
48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal tibia managed
nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to us. There,s no
signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large contusion, Tscherne
3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ? Internal fixation (
plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option...
Best regards
Marek Kolasniewski
Orthopedic Trauma Unit
Military Hospital
Poznan
Poland





jjbrooksmd at gmail
New User

Nov 8, 2008, 10:39 AM

Post #11 of 14 (5104 views)
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Re: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

My strong preference would be IM nailing in this case, with plate
fixation of the fibula with syndesmosis screw as well --if lateral
soft tissues allow, and perc the medial mall.

CT scan showing articular injury will be helpful.

I have never understood when folks refer to external fixation in
severe soft tissue trauma (IIIc tibias...) "to allow access to the
wound"... I can't think of a better way than IMN to "allow access to
the wound".

Jeff


On Nov 8, 2008, at 8:35 AM, jacob odesky wrote:

> Dear colleague! Do you use in yours practice Ilizarov apparatus? If
> yes, his technique is a method of choice for this case.
> I agree with the doctor Wolfson that soft tissue more important
> than fracture at the first stage of management of patient.
> Therefore good debridement of the wound with removal of all
> devitalized tissues is extremely important.
> How can you use Ilizarov techniques for soft tissues? You can
> essentially decrees the sizes of the wound by dublication of bone
> fragments having created shortening and \or angular deformity.With
> the subsequent restoration of length and an axis of a segment by
> Ilizarov apparatus.
> This technique is well described by doctor Lerner in his book
> A. Lerner D. Reis M. Soudry
> Severe Injuries to the Limbs
> Staged Treatment
> If you need more recommendations about this technique, you may
> address to me.
> All the best.
> Odessky Jacob M.D.
> Orthopedic Division
> Assaf Harofeah Medical Center
> Zerifin, Israel
>
> --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl> wrote:
> From: Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl>
> Subject: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia
> To: ORT-L@www2.aaos.org
> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 11:34 AM
>
> Dear
> Could You give us an advice ?
> 48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal tibia managed
> nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to us.
> There,s no
> signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large contusion,
> Tscherne
> 3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ? Internal
> fixation (
> plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option...
> Best regards
> Marek Kolasniewski
> Orthopedic Trauma Unit
> Military Hospital
> Poznan
> Poland
>



odesky2000 at yahoo
New User

Nov 8, 2008, 12:49 PM

Post #12 of 14 (5104 views)
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Re: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

Jeff! Before I have got acquainted with the Ilizarov method, I did not understand too,

--- On Sat, 11/8/08, Jeff Brooks <jjbrooksmd@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jeff Brooks <jjbrooksmd@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia
To: ORT-L@www2.aaos.org
Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 8:39 PM


My strong preference would be IM nailing in this case, with plate fixation of the fibula with syndesmosis screw as well --if lateral soft tissues allow, and perc the medial mall.


CT scan showing articular injury will be helpful.


I have never understood when folks refer to external fixation in severe soft tissue trauma (IIIc tibias...) "to allow access to the wound"... I can't think of a better way than IMN to "allow access to the wound".


Jeff





On Nov 8, 2008, at 8:35 AM, jacob odesky wrote:






Dear colleague! Do you use in yours practice Ilizarov apparatus? If yes, his technique is a method of choice for this case.
I agree with the doctor Wolfson that soft tissue more important than fracture at the first stage of management of patient. Therefore good debridement of the wound with removal of all devitalized tissues is extremely important.
How can you use Ilizarov techniques for soft tissues? You can essentially decrees the sizes of the wound by dublication of bone fragments having created shortening and \or angular deformity.With the subsequent restoration of length and an axis of a segment by Ilizarov apparatus.
This technique is well described by doctor Lerner in his book
A. Lerner D. Reis M. Soudry
Severe Injuries to the Limbs
Staged Treatment
If you need more recommendations about this technique, you may address to me.
All the best.
Odessky Jacob M.D.
Orthopedic Division
Assaf Harofeah Medical Center
Zerifin, Israel

--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl> wrote:

From: Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl>
Subject: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia
To: ORT-L@www2.aaos.org
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 11:34 AM

Dear
Could You give us an advice ?
48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal tibia managed
nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to us. There,s no
signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large contusion, Tscherne
3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ? Internal fixation (
plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option...
Best regards
Marek Kolasniewski
Orthopedic Trauma Unit
Military Hospital
Poznan
Poland







alex61 at gmail
New User

Nov 8, 2008, 5:17 PM

Post #13 of 14 (5102 views)
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Re: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Jeff
For instance cross leg grafting with ex-fix is much simpler than without.

2008/11/8, Jeff Brooks <jjbrooksmd@gmail.com>:
> My strong preference would be IM nailing in this case, with plate
> fixation of the fibula with syndesmosis screw as well --if lateral
> soft tissues allow, and perc the medial mall.
>
> CT scan showing articular injury will be helpful.
>
> I have never understood when folks refer to external fixation in
> severe soft tissue trauma (IIIc tibias...) "to allow access to the
> wound"... I can't think of a better way than IMN to "allow access to
> the wound".
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On Nov 8, 2008, at 8:35 AM, jacob odesky wrote:
>
>> Dear colleague! Do you use in yours practice Ilizarov apparatus? If
>> yes, his technique is a method of choice for this case.
>> I agree with the doctor Wolfson that soft tissue more important
>> than fracture at the first stage of management of patient.
>> Therefore good debridement of the wound with removal of all
>> devitalized tissues is extremely important.
>> How can you use Ilizarov techniques for soft tissues? You can
>> essentially decrees the sizes of the wound by dublication of bone
>> fragments having created shortening and \or angular deformity.With
>> the subsequent restoration of length and an axis of a segment by
>> Ilizarov apparatus.
>> This technique is well described by doctor Lerner in his book
>> A. Lerner D. Reis M. Soudry
>> "Severe Injuries to the Limbs
>> Staged Treatment"
>> If you need more recommendations about this technique, you may
>> address to me.
>> All the best.
>> Odessky Jacob M.D.
>> Orthopedic Division
>> Assaf Harofeah Medical Center
>> Zerifin, Israel
>>
>> --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl> wrote:
>> From: Marek Kolasniewski <kolix@wp.pl>
>> Subject: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia
>> To: ORT-L@www2.aaos.org
>> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 11:34 AM
>>
>> Dear
>> Could You give us an advice ?
>> 48 yo male, crush injury ( esp. Gustilo IIIA ) of distal tibia managed
>> nonoperatively ( cast ! ABX) for 2 days, was transferred to us.
>> There,s no
>> signs of infection but condition of skin is bad ( large contusion,
>> Tscherne
>> 3 ) What kind of treatment: definitivly or staged ? Internal
>> fixation (
>> plate ) or maybe nail + screws ? Ilizarov is an option...
>> Best regards
>> Marek Kolasniewski
>> Orthopedic Trauma Unit
>> Military Hospital
>> Poznan
>> Poland
>>
>
>


--
--
Best regards,
Alexander N. Chelnokov
Ural Scientific Research Institute
of Traumatology and Orthopaedics
7, Bankovsky str. Ekaterinburg 620014 Russia
---
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kolix at wp
New User

Nov 12, 2008, 10:01 AM

Post #14 of 14 (4988 views)
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RE: [ORT-L] crush distal tibia [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear colleagues!
I've sent you picture of the leg. I have problem with this patients because
he has had dyspnoea, hemoptysis. We have made, ABG, X-Ray, etc and finally
angio-CT of thorax. Our diagnosis is fat embolus syndrome with some kind of
acute lung injury ( moderate hypoxia )
Now, he has had 3rd debridement in medial part of the leg, but his problem
is also in lateral part - Morel - Lavalle Lesion...
In Friday I hope to stabilize ankle fracture. And then I plane to make acute
shortening after remove all necrotic tissue from lateral and posterior
compartment.

Best regards

Marek Kolasniewski
Orthopedic and Trauma Unit
Military Hospital
Poznan
Poland
Attachments: Image106.jpg (38.7 KB)

 
 
 


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